CLEVELAND, Ohio — This week’s Terry’s Talkin’ podcast is live, with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. This week, they break down the Cavs after their impressive sweep of the Miami Heat.
They also get into the struggles of the Guardians pitching staff, and what they thought of the Browns draft, including Dillon Gabriel and Shedeur Sanders, the new rookie quarterbacks.
Stories by Terry Pluto
Have any questions or comments for the podcast? Send your thoughts and questions in via email to us at sports@cleveland.com and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line, and we’ll try to feature it on an upcoming episode.
Highlights:
- Cavs’ Historic Playoff Sweep
- The Cavs Team Identity and Impressive Depth
- Donovan Mitchell’s Leadership and Team Dynamics
- Looking Ahead in the Playoffs
- Browns Draft: Did What they Did Make Sense?
- Why They Took 2 Running Backs
- What Was Missing in the Browns’ Draft
- Shedeur Sanders vs. Dillon Gabriel and the veteran QBs
- Fan Emails and Expectations for the Browns
- The Guardians’ Banged-Up Pitching Staff
- Listener Emails about listening to games in years past; and a question from Terry about his favorite Parma sports memories.
Here’s the podcast for this week:
If the player above doesn’t work, you can listen to this week’s podcast here.
If you have a question or a topic you’d like to see included on the podcast, email it to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line.
You can find previous podcasts below. The transcript below was generated by a computer, and as such it contains many spelling and grammar errors.
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David Campbell (01:00.379)
It’s time for the Terry’s Talking podcast featuring Terry Pluto. I’m your host David Campbell. We’re taping this on Tuesday afternoon, the 29th of April, right? Yeah, it’s still April, late in the afternoon. How you doing, Terry?
Terry Pluto (01:14.28)
I am doing well.
David Campbell (01:16.402)
I was trying to figure out what we should start with today and I think it should be the calves. How do feel about that? All right.
Terry Pluto (01:20.844)
Yes. Give them, I mean, they just drilled Miami. We’ll be doing Brown’s draft till the next draft.
David Campbell (01:29.297)
Yeah, let’s do it. thought we would start with, we got a nice thoughtful email today from Jared Atkins and Jared lives in Paradise Valley, Arizona. He says, Hey guys, I was texting with my old Ohio crew as the Cavs were demolishing the heat and game four. Some of my crew felt like the sweep was no big deal and expected. It immediately made me think, are you kidding me? We’re all around 50 years old on that text thread and seen a lot of playoff disappointment in our Cleveland sports fan careers.
Terry Pluto (01:53.709)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (01:58.863)
I wondered how many series in Cavs history that we’ve swept where LeBron wasn’t on the team. I was thinking unless it was the Miracle of Richfield era teams, which were a bit ahead of my time, there were none I could remember. A quick Google search confirmed my thought. That win yesterday concluded the first non-LeBron Cavs team to sweep a playoff series. That’s noteworthy. It’s been an enjoyable season and a great group of guys. I refuse to think it has to be title or bust. Boston and OKC are great teams and they’ll be tough outs.
Terry Pluto (02:07.903)
No.
David Campbell (02:28.199)
But we’re a top three team in the NBA and the window is open for the foreseeable future. I sure hope they can figure out a way to keep Jerome. I’m doubtful they can make it work financially. I felt he’s been the unsung MVP of the season regards Jared Edkins, Paradise Valley, Arizona born and raised in Norwalk, Ohio. So I thought that kind of captured a lot of what fans might be feeling today. Terry, what do you think of all that?
Terry Pluto (02:52.372)
I love the historical context because I was trying to think even where they kind of blew anybody out in the playoffs, like winning in five games, maybe there is a period where they did it, none comes to mind, without LeBron, I mean, because you really had to go back David to.
The last time they had won a round in the playoffs without LeBron, it was 93. And then you had to go all the way to basically last season.
And cause you could say that, you know, that cause they lost in the play out plan. Remember? And then, then they made it and they lost to New York. And then, so last year was the first time they even won a round without LeBron. Which just shows, I mean, I used to write to the cows have always been kind of two friends, five slices, one with LeBron, one without LeBron. And what this, hopefully this group will do is it just makes it more, the winning is just basically.
A real team, as Kobe Altman says, a runway. And they are in great shape. You know, I know one thing with Dan Gilbert’s money, signing Jerome won’t be just, I don’t want to pay the cash. It will be how they’re going to figure out things with that second apron and whatever. And I’m not going to get into all that because I don’t fully understand it. We could talk about that as it gets closer. But we know when the team starts to be good, he’ll really write a check.
David Campbell (04:34.065)
He has shown that. another thing to consider, I know we don’t want to get caught in the salary cap stuff, Terry, but when Evan Mobley won Defensive Player of the Year last week, it kicked in a $45 million escalator in his contract. So there’ll be that to contend with too, but.
Terry Pluto (04:42.648)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (04:46.775)
Yeah.
You know, that ended up being a better draft than I thought because Kate Cunningham with JB now credit to him has just bloomed to do a superstar. Carried that team because I’ve watched them play a few times. I mean, they’re okay. But they’re not, they’re way overachieving in my mind. And you know, Cunningham’s carrying them. Moe Boy ends up being the defensive player of the year. And that’s, that’s fantastic. And Moe Boy here.
is in the perfect situation because he’s growing as an offensive player, but he doesn’t have to carry the offense. Because really, as we saw in the, was the game two where the Cavs got out in front and then they kind of fell apart. They got lazy on defense and then they were going, what did Donovan score? Like 17 points in the fourth quarter, you know, to rescue them. And that allowed where Devin could concentrate on other things. He doesn’t have to.
do everything, where you watch Detroit, mean Cunningham is carrying a huge load there. He really is.
David Campbell (05:57.959)
And that’s kind of what I think has Cavs fans so excited is just the depth and the scoring up and down the lineup. So anyway, why don’t I run through some of the numbers from last night, Terry, and then I want you to get, know there’s some things you want to talk about about what you’re seeing about this team’s identity and things like that. So it was 138 to 83. It’s the largest point differential in Cavaliers playoff history. It’s the second time with Eric Spolstra as the coach that Miami has been swept.
Terry Pluto (06:00.651)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (06:07.736)
Sure.
Bye
David Campbell (06:24.445)
and the third time the Heat has ever been swept. So that’s not easy to do. The Cavs shot 56.8 % from the field and 48.8 from three point range. The 138 points are a franchise playoff record. They outscored the Heat by 122 combined points. That’s the largest point differential in any playoff series in the history of the NBA. And yeah, the last team to sweep the Heat in...
The 17 seasons that Spolstra’s been the coach was the 2021 Milwaukee Bucks and they went on to win the championship. kind of pulled some of these out of Chris Fedor’s stuff overnight after the game. He’s always got some great statistical background in there. What are you seeing? You’ve been watching the Cavs for a long time, Terry. What are you seeing right now and what do think it means for the rest of this playoff run?
Terry Pluto (06:57.612)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (07:11.212)
Well, the other stat that’s amazing is they outscored Milwaukee, excuse me, outscored Miami, I believe, but was at 92 points without Darius Garland in Miami.
I mean, that’s what that’s a staggering thing. Yeah. But 92 points in two games without your second leading score.
David Campbell (07:21.201)
Yeah, then resting the toe. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (07:31.278)
After the game, could tell that I watched a little of the press conference with Spolster and he was just distraught. He said, almost, I guess we were kind of in denial thinking we could play with these guys. How about that? I don’t misunderstand. They’re a really great team, but he just never imagined they would be basically humiliated at home. I love the fact they kept those teams under 90 points on the road. That I liked the fact that.
Atkinson got on them after they won game two about getting out rebounded, getting out scored in the paint, and they responded because they’re going to have to be a tougher team physically as they go along, even against Indiana. Go ahead.
David Campbell (08:16.625)
That was, yeah, that’s what just building on that point, Terry, like the playoffs, NBA players are proud and they don’t, they don’t like to have their toughness or their manhood questioned in the play. When, when it’s the playoffs, people bring it and to see them just wilt like they did last night. It just really shows you how deep and good this Cavs team is when it’s firing on all cylinders. Like they were last night. It was incredible.
Terry Pluto (08:25.844)
No. No.
Terry Pluto (08:37.304)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it really was. And the other thing that I liked is, you know, Jared Allen is, I think he’s Roberta’s favorite player and probably mine because he is so unselfish and he had six steals in the first half. It’s almost like he was a free safety on the first play of the game. He read a pass cut right in front of the receiver and took it to the house. I mean, was just, I mean, you know,
David Campbell (09:08.456)
Pick six.
Terry Pluto (09:11.83)
I wish the Browns or somebody to do that. It was just, it was an amazing thing. And I’ll tell you one to watch when. One thing they do pick up when Garland was done in there. And especially when streus is in the back court, streus really does a good job getting the ball to big men in different ways. Darius gets it likes throw them the lobs, but if streus can hit them on, on the move with the nice high bounce pass, not just a bounce pass, it’s got a bounce up high.
They call it pocket passes or whatever it is. He seems to get them going at good angles. And I think they go to the rim more because they just know he’s so good at it. Struces does have that Miami heat winning edge that Kenny likes. And the reason, as we go along, we’ll see whether at some point maybe they will have to start Hunter facing the Celtics or somebody. I don’t know. But you could understand why Kenny wants to keep
Hunter and Jerome coming off the bench. mean, the one game, yeah, it game three. They’re down 12 to four. The Virginia guys come in and it’s over. I mean, it was just like a, yeah, score to like 27 to five game over in Miami. Over. could, I’m watching that and I’m thinking, I don’t think they’re coming back. I, you know, I think they’re done. And they were just, cause also they were just pounding them inside. And I know three pointers are very important, but you just, you need everything. When I was.
before game, uh, game two, I remember I went to the press conference, the pregame press conference and Kenny was already, even then beginning up a little of his, we got a rebound bet or whatnot. And I said, Kenny, do you think that teams that are highly skilled like the Cavaliers, is this just a temptation to say we can outscore them or out shoot them? And he said, it is, that’s real.
He says, but if you really want to win, you got to do both. You have to do both. And what I liked is they were shooting very well in game three and four and they defended all the way through.
David Campbell (11:18.301)
And I was just going to get into that Terry. was just looking up. I wanted to see what the score was, but there were two things that if you’re a Cavs fan, you really have to be excited about. I think it was, I’m just looking it up right now. 427 left in the third quarter last night and Jovic goes on a drive and I think Ty Jerome might’ve blocked his shot. The Cavs were up by like 40 points. And as soon as the play was over,
Terry Pluto (11:27.392)
huh.
Terry Pluto (11:44.003)
Yeah.
David Campbell (11:46.013)
I can’t remember if was Struzer or Jerome, but whoever it was started calling for a replay. As soon as the play was, it’s like you’re up 40 points and Kenny was right off the bench to Kenny Atkinson. He’s like, we’re challenging that. Cause I think he usually gets the word from Johnny Bryant on the bench, right? About replays and they’re up by 40 points late in the third quarter of a blowout. And it just, goes back to what you’re talking about, Terry. I think after that game two.
Terry Pluto (11:51.458)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (11:59.726)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (12:03.704)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (12:13.265)
The message was sent is like every possession is 110%. We’re giving up no inches to anybody. I don’t care what the score is. I don’t care what point of the game it is. We’re fighting for every inch out there. And that was just one indication of it. Like who does that?
Terry Pluto (12:27.502)
And, and also reward them, David reward the guy for being up by 40 and tracking them down from behind. believe it was truce. and that is a, that’s another thing you want to keep. What messages are you sending? You know, it’s an old coaching thing. You get what you stress. And now Kenny started up on the rebounding about in middle of February. I mean, that’s, that was one of his things.
The stats from game five or so offside, you didn’t really get the full force of when you look at the team stats for the whole game of how they own the inside because it was such a blowout. But I was just so pleased because I’m big on the the team rebounding and that because I just know it’s coming. It’s coming. They’re going to be challenged. Indiana will challenge them. Maybe not quite the same way, but I’m watching.
then play against the bucks and I know the box that guys were getting hurt or whatever, but they got guys who could score and Carlisle has really good offensive schemes. He’s a veteran coach. And I didn’t, go to the, I believe they went to the final four last year. Basically they were playing the Celtics, you know, they’re like, they’re like the good team. Nobody knows.
David Campbell (13:48.987)
and a superstar to carry things when it gets rough.
Terry Pluto (13:50.476)
Yep. They have Halliburton there. Miles Turner, the big guy, is really growing. I remember when he came in, he could barely make a free throw, and he shoots from threes and that. Neymar, Neymar always comes off the bench. gotta watch it. He’s gonna shoot it every time he gets the ball. Like Jordan Clarkson does that. The old days, Vinnie Johnson did that. It’s funny. They even tell these guys, you know,
He’s going to shoot it every time he gets the ball. So the guys kind of go dribbles in towards the rim. Suddenly he veers out. They go, he’s going to pass it. Then he turns around and shoots it. You have to stay on those guys. So I’m excited to see that. It’s just so much fun. Kenny made a really great point after the game. said, this is what you do when you get to top seed.
Because you get the guy that had to go through the gauntlet, that’s exactly his words, that Miami did just to get to the playoffs and get there with no rest within 36 hours. And you’ve had a whole week to heal and be ready. You just have to be ready. And he said, and we guys, we went along, I saw us gaining strength. I like that too.
David Campbell (15:05.319)
So I wanted to talk about Donovan Mitchell for a second because this was another moment that and by the way, check out all of our coverage at cleveland.com slash calves. Chris Feodor who was in Miami has a couple of really interesting pieces. One of them is about Max Struse and I’m gonna come back to that. But the other one is about that long embrace between Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love yesterday, which was just heart wrenching. If you saw it, Kevin Love lost his father within the last few days. That’s why he was gone away from the Miami Heat and just shows you what a relationship.
Terry Pluto (15:15.64)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (15:23.458)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (15:34.717)
that those 2016 calves have.
Terry Pluto (15:34.85)
And on that too, mean, his dad’s had cancer for quite a while and anybody who’s lived in cancer land, and I don’t mean that, I mean that is really like if you live in stroke land or dementia land, whoever it is, you just know it hangs on you because I’ve been through some of these things. just hang, it’s always there in the background and you know, it’s nice sometimes to go play, but then when you’re done, it’s like, gee, I wonder.
What did the latest, what the other pectests say? What did this say? What treatment? You go to see them and it’s like the cancer’s eating them up in one way and the chemo’s eating them up in the radiation in the other. And that was wonderful to see Tristan and their two old warriors. mean, that team will always be loved in this town whether it’s Richard Jefferson or any of those guys.
And just like the 95 to 97 Indians, know, those guys, they didn’t win it, but boy, they had two world series and, know, Oh, Chad OJ is back in town and you know, Oh yeah, yeah, Chad, you know, Chad back, know, Chad goes back to Louisiana and nobody hardly knows who he is. You know, really? Uh, other than, yeah, but it’s just, it’s something special for that. And, and they will always, you know, the old line will always have Paris from, you know, the movie. Uh, but it’s like.
They’ll always have that 2016. and also just that, and that group and you look at the two guys there, thought they sacrificed probably the most on that team. Cause first of all, Tristan always played an unselfish game, you know, offensive rebounding and that. And Kevin was the one I remember when he joined the Cavs and there was an interview with Chris Bosch and in a sense,
David Campbell (17:05.501)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (17:30.616)
Bosch said, Kevin is gonna find out what it’s like to be me. Because Bosch was with the Heat when LeBron came in and went away. Because originally, you know, they were able to work it with two guys. He said, with three guys, usually somebody’s sorta gonna be left out. And then it’s gonna be, how do you handle that? And that was, and remember how LeBron was tough on Kevin too.
You know, fit in or fit out. remember that tweet because he, and they were pushing him to defend. Cause basically what Kevin used to do when he was a young player with Minnesota, he would pad his rebounding stats. He just kind of stayed under the rim. But if his man went out and shot an 18 footer or a three point, he didn’t care. He just stayed under him. Yeah, he was, but, but he was really apathetic on defense. He wanted to rebound and he wanted to score. Um, and.
David Campbell (18:14.365)
Well, was Kate Cunningham of the Timberwolves.
Terry Pluto (18:25.154)
He was on a bad team most of the time and so they were able to do that, pat his stats. that’s why I think too the other thing that struck me is the roles those guys played and they knew what and what they also knew off the court what people have dealt with during all that time.
David Campbell (18:42.865)
Yeah, and I did want to mention to getting back to Donovan Mitchell, like when he was interviewed after the game last night, the first thing he said, he spent 30, 45 seconds wishing the Love family condolences on the passing of Kevin Love’s dad. And I thought that was really classy. But anyway, getting back to the Mitchell-Strews thing. So Chris Futor has this in his story last night about Max Strews sent a text late on Sunday night to the whole team saying, listen,
Terry Pluto (18:52.76)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (19:03.918)
Right.
David Campbell (19:10.031)
enough is enough, take care of business, we need the rest and don’t mess around. He said it in little bit harsher language, but as part of the story that Chris reported, I don’t think I saw this, but Donovan Mitchell flopped on one play and gave up a three pointer and Struce lit into him. Yeah, I had missed that, but how many teams have you seen, Terry Cavs or otherwise, where you’re in the playoffs and the team’s best player
Terry Pluto (19:14.15)
I bet he did,
Terry Pluto (19:29.079)
really? I didn’t see that. Wow.
David Campbell (19:39.055)
is getting ripped into by somebody else on the team. Like you don’t see that every day, right? And I think if you’re a Cavs fan, this isn’t like LeBron and the LeBron heirs or whatever they used to call it when he came into the league. This is a team and they respect each other. And when you have Max True calling out Donovan Mitchell for, there’s no flopping in the playoffs. It’s like, there’s no crying in baseball, right? There’s no flopping in the playoffs. That really tells you something about how this team is built from within, right? Do you get the same sense?
Terry Pluto (19:50.04)
Mwah.
Terry Pluto (20:00.172)
Thank
Terry Pluto (20:05.646)
And also you have to have the right guy to do it and they know strews place hard all the time and strews now you talk about sacrificing I mean this guy got a lot more shots and everything else in Miami than he’s getting here I Mean he’s a he really is the fifth wheel starting with the other four and Yes, he does it is it absolutely is and
David Campbell (20:26.757)
And he’s been to the finals and he knows what it takes. I think that’s why guys listen to him.
Terry Pluto (20:33.964)
You know, of course he’s never committed a foul. I don’t know if you’ve noticed that. Every foul, argues every foul. He’s never committed a foul. you know, players got to think, roll their eyes at that. But he’s, he was brought in for that. And also, that’s one of the things that Kenny mentioned that one of, he was worried when they traded Niang because he said Niang had that edge and kind of that, that he liked. And he said that, you know, Strews had it.
David Campbell (20:38.576)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (21:03.662)
He wanted to see who the second guy would be. thought it would be good to have two of them. And Ty Jerome has got some of that in him. But you got to be good to do that. Tristan, if you watch on the bench, will talk to the guys. And Tristan has it because he does have the championship ring. And the other thing is he lives in the gym there. I mean, he’s playing pickup with everybody else or all the young guys. And they also know that when Tristan plays, he will go on there and knock bodies around.
That’s why they kept him. That’s why Kobe brought him in and why they kept them. There was a lot of thought given to chemistry with these guys from the moment they began to build the team, you know, with Jared Allen coming in, who was very unselfish. they, Kobe kept adding guys, you know, where, you know, it’s a special unit when they have to work on Evan Mobley to shoot more. I mean, that’s, that’s usually not in their DNA.
But they know, they know he’s going to play the defense and they they’re telling there’s still, still had saw Jared do it. I can’t remember his game three or four. He did it again. He’s three feet from the basket. He threw it to somebody in the corner. It’s like, will you please just take the two points? You know, you’ve earned it. Just dunk it and go down the other end. Uh, and I just, that’s why they’re, they’re so enjoyable. mean, I just run into casual fans who’ve just embraced this team.
David Campbell (22:13.055)
Ha
David Campbell (22:17.681)
Just dunk it.
Terry Pluto (22:30.144)
And they have been the last few years, you know, they’re just getting better. And I think the other thing, if you got on the train back when, they even made the play them tournament and won the 44 games. So when they went from 22 to 44 wins and you’ve been stuck with them since, you know, like, Kathleen Thompson’s one of the long time fans or some of the others, you know, they just are so excited because you, got to go along for the ride and.
If you’re not one of these fans that said there was championship or nothing, if they didn’t get the title, where just failed, you know. Now, did you enjoy it? Are they are they good guys? Are they going in the right direction? All that stuff.
David Campbell (23:10.749)
Yeah, and you watch some of these, they’ve had reality shows like on NBA TV where they have people, it’s like a thing where you try to be an NBA GM and you pick the guys that you think will fit, analytics this and their plus minus that. you’re right, Terry, the culture thing, mean, Kobe Altman has to be very proud of the way the pieces have fit. everybody’s kind of sacrificed a little bit, everybody’s bought in and.
Terry Pluto (23:19.031)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (23:29.879)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (23:34.909)
There hasn’t just, don’t see, like even on the court, the body language is positive. think just Cavs fans have to be just so excited to see how this thing turns out because it’s all there. It’s all there right now.
Terry Pluto (23:43.458)
Well, when your best, when you, when your best player, that’s like what they talk about the guardians with Jose, when your best player, you know, plays the hardest and leaves the right way. And yeah, Donovan flopped the other day and got called on it. By the way, didn’t rebel about that either. He knew it. But when your best player plays like he wants to be there and it’s about the right stuff, which Donovan is, you know, it just helps the coach so much, but that they knew Donovan was a good guy. I remember talking to Kobe for a background thing after he goes,
We checked this guy out, you know, he’s been in a smaller market in Utah. Yeah, he may have wanted to go to New York, but he just, you know, he was, he delivered in Utah. They just weren’t quite good enough to go any further. He said, this is a guy you build with. This is a star. He says, we have to convince him to stay. And they did, but they felt if they, that Donovan really was about winning and not about marketing. And that, yeah, they all want to market, but that wasn’t the goal. And.
They sold winning to him and then he re-upped. was, you go back to the summer when that is, it’s still hilarious. I’ve seen some of these collages they put together of all these talking heads from the big male. He’ll never stay there. He wants to go to New York and all this. Well, I know among other things, they had a whole thing. I don’t think they even needed to pull it out, but the Cavs had prepared this whole thing of like, we can’t even make a deal with the Knicks for you.
You know, the salary cap is too messed up or whatever. What are they going to do? Chadis Jalen Brunson? We’re not doing that. They’re not doing that. But it never even got to that. It got to where by mid, the mid, around the all-star game night of this season, the previous season, and Westings was totally going to fall apart. And Donovan’s mind, he was staying. In words, they sold him on this and then he sold others. It’s just, it’s so perfect in terms of a Cleveland team in the NBA.
David Campbell (25:41.073)
All right, anything else on the calves, Jerry? I think we covered a fair amount stuff there.
Terry Pluto (25:43.907)
You know when I watch this, I go back to that because I get some emails from fans too who like me love. There’s a lot of things that reminded them of the calves of the. Price door in answer. You know what they missed? They missed Donovan Mitchell. They needed their own Donovan Mitchell. know fans. Some fans will say well they had Ron Harper and they traded him and. I’ll say Ron was good. Of course, Ron immediately had a major knee surgery after he left, but Donovan Mitchell is better. Donovan Mitchell.
I’ve been saying this almost from his first year, is the second best player I’ve seen with the Cavs. And then when you add in the intangibles off the court, I mean, he clearly is way above. I don’t want to hear about Kyrie Irving or some of these other guys. Look, I love Mark Price, but Mitchell’s better, you know, and that, and they’re fortunate to get him. They got him right in his prime, that middle twenties, you know, right there. And so this is exciting. We’ll see what comes next.
David Campbell (26:43.805)
All right. I did want to mention like, you remember the game, you know, where the Cavs lost in the playoffs, LeBron threw his jersey and you knew that was going to be it. Like that was, that was one of those games for the Heat last night. Like when you watch Bam at a bio with his head under a towel for the whole second half. And there was a quote from him after the game that I saw from, I think it was from the Associated Press. There’s going to be a lot of changes this summer. Bam said, just from my point of view, understanding how the guy with the silver hair works just
Terry Pluto (26:52.023)
Hahahaha
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (26:59.788)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (27:12.942)
Yeah, Pat Riley.
David Campbell (27:13.629)
Just be prepared for that. So there’s going to be a...
Terry Pluto (27:18.008)
They’re in a tough spot too. They are stuck kind of that stuck in the middle They don’t Tyrell here. Ty you know, Tyler hero is a nice player, but he’s not a superstar and the cash shirt like you can take him out and It’s just like I really like Darius Garland. He’s not a superstar you know and but Donovan Mitchell is
David Campbell (27:37.393)
Alright.
David Campbell (27:43.259)
The pieces are fitting. It’s been fun to watch. So, okay Well, the Cavs and their fans will be watching tonight to see the Pacers bucks game five on Tuesday night Pacers up three to one and the Cavs will get the winner of that It looks like Saturday or Sunday will be game one down at a rocket arena So we will know more by the end of tonight potentially. So alright, you ready to take a break Terry? Alright when we get back we are gonna get into this Browns draft. I want to ask you Terry Who do you think is gonna have the better NFL career?
Terry Pluto (28:04.065)
Yes, I am.
David Campbell (28:12.349)
Dylan Gabriel or Shadoor Sanders. So we’ll get into that and more when we come back on Terry’s Talking.
Terry Pluto (28:18.222)
There’s a question for the ages.
David Campbell (30:29.519)
Alright, we are back on Terry’s talking. I wanted to give a quick mention of Terry’s newsletter. If you haven’t signed up for it yet, go subscribe right now. Go to cleveland.com slash Pluto. There’s a blue bar at the top of the page and you can subscribe right there. You get two weeks free. Terry’s newsletter comes out every Wednesday at noon and it is just jammed full of his thoughts on what’s going on. A lot of interesting contract breakdowns that he does, fun stories, and it’s a great way to reach Terry and interact with him through the newsletter email. So.
check it out cleveland.com slash Pluto, Pluto blue bar at the top. So, all right, Terry, how do you want to start with the Browns here? Do want me to run through the picks real quick? Like should I just read them off? So just as a reset for everybody and then we can go from there, right? All right, so the Browns traded down from two to five and took Mason Graham defensive line in Michigan. Two picks in the second round at 33, they took Carson Swessinger from UCLA. He’s a linebacker. The other second round was Quinn Sean Judkins, the Ohio State running back. They got him at number 36.
In the third round, they had two picks. took Harold Fanon Jr., the tight end from Bowling Green at 67, and Dylan Gabriel, quarterback from Oregon at 94. They had one fourth round where they took Dylan Sampson running back from Tennessee 126 overall. And at 144, they kind of wrapped up their last picks and packaged it for number 144 and took Shadour Sanders, quarterback Colorado, which was probably the surprise story of the draft there.
Terry Pluto (32:10.182)
Okay well and if all right well let’s talk about the trade so they you know I have I’m I’m coming around on the trade but I had my heart set on Travis Hunter and because I just in the end I really believe they passed on a great player now this may work out for them so what do they have right now they have Judkins from Ohio State they have Mason Graham
David Campbell (32:11.195)
Yeah, where do you want to start? There’s lots to go through here. Okay.
Terry Pluto (32:36.562)
And one of those picks was used to get Chidder Saunders. So that’s, you basically traded for those three guys and you’d rather the top pick for next year. it’s pretty hard, at least on the, paper side to look at that and say, this is a terrible trade, even though I wanted Hunter because they got a lot, they got a lot for that. You got a defensive tackle who was a top four to five pick, but basically everybody’s board. I wanted to, I wanted a power, power running back and
you what he wanted Henderson or Jutkins. mean, I, had a hard time picking between the two. kind of favored Henderson, but I don’t know. have any thoughts on which one of those guys you wanted?
David Campbell (33:17.019)
between the, the, the Ohio state guys, I have, so I liked them both, but they’re so different. Judkins just felt like a Browns running back to me. And I was a little Henderson. If you look at his career at Ohio state, he got a little nicked up a lot. Like, you know, the injury thing, his first couple of years just really sprung up and it was always something that, and again, you know, guys get injured. get it, but it just seems like Judkins is more durable.
Terry Pluto (33:18.776)
to Ohio Fake Ice.
Terry Pluto (33:26.658)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (33:34.125)
Okay.
David Campbell (33:45.925)
and more of an AFC North type of back. think that.
Terry Pluto (33:48.566)
Although interesting thing on Henderson to his defense, I’ve had some NFL people and I’ve seen them mention scouting reports that he blocks picks up blisters and all that as well as anybody like they’ve seen. Yeah.
David Campbell (33:56.473)
absolutely. They’re saying like he’s one of the best blocking running backs that has come out in years and years.
Terry Pluto (34:03.042)
Like ever something, mean, yeah, like that. mean, that kind of, which, so clearly the toughness is there, but as you said, the injury history, go ahead.
David Campbell (34:11.249)
Yeah, that was it. I think they’re both going to have really good NFL careers. And I just think that Judkins makes more sense for the Browns in what they need, which is somebody a little more physical who can run between the tackles and just pound people. So anyway, I thought it was right there.
Terry Pluto (34:26.55)
And I’ll tell you the guy they took Sampson is really an intriguing player too from Tennessee. and the, did he the sec in rushing? I forgot. I think he did. So they got the guy who led the SEC in rushing this year, the guy who led the SEC in rushing last year, which is Judkins. and I like having the dual running backs because as you said, they do get hurt and.
If they’re going to play the Stefanski style, regardless of who the quarterback is, and especially if they end up playing the rookie a lot, you better have these guys ready to run the ball and run it a lot. And they were not going to be able with the current, the group they had there do it.
David Campbell (35:15.581)
Yeah, another thing that I thought they did was they’ve got some special teams guys in this bunch that they can go to. think Swessinger is going to be really good on special teams. You can put Judkins and Sampson out there to help. think Fanning can play some special teams. know, he’s got the speed. So I thought that was something that’ll help them a little bit in terms of breaking these guys in. What else, Terry? There’s a lot to go through here.
Terry Pluto (35:20.551)
huh.
Terry Pluto (35:24.226)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (35:38.026)
Alright, well how good do you think Graham is?
David Campbell (35:41.905)
I mean, I only know from what I’ve seen playing in the Big Ten, but I think fans were disappointed like you were when they traded down and didn’t take Travis Hunter. But like, what if Mason Graham is the Browns defensive version of Joe Thomas, right? Where he plays 10 or 12 just really great years, maybe Hall of Fame caliber. Like the people are talking, that’s how good he can be and how disruptive he can be. I mean, that’s a great pick for
Terry Pluto (35:51.512)
Hmm.
Terry Pluto (36:05.741)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (36:11.325)
number five and you get in the first rounder from that trade I think that’s what he could be. That’s what they’re hoping he’ll be. He seems like he’s got great technique and got a great motor and they need that. They need somebody young who can kind of cause some trouble in middle of that line.
Terry Pluto (36:25.9)
I mean, I’m intrigued by Schlesinger. Now he only started one year. Am I saying that right? The kid from UCLA is Schlesinger. Yeah. he weighed only, think 228 during the season, the, the combine he was 242. Put on some weight. you know, led, all the big division one schools and tackles and also in, I believe solo tackles. He was all over the place and they need that. And he get play in the middle.
David Campbell (36:30.971)
Yeah, Schlesinger.
Terry Pluto (36:55.074)
and just some added speed and toughness to that defensive group. We mentioned two running backs, which they certainly needed to do. But I have a favorite player in this draft.
David Campbell (37:08.807)
Who is it?
Terry Pluto (37:10.251)
one yes.
David Campbell (37:14.205)
Is it Harold Fanon Jr.? all right.
Terry Pluto (37:15.566)
Yes it is. I love tight ends that you get through the ball to and on top of it you know the point the bowling green a Mac guy. What do you catch 112 or 117 passes? It’s just outrageous and he had big games against a couple of ranked teams.
Terry Pluto (37:37.438)
you put him in the joku out there again in the old standard offense with these running backs then you need average smart quarterback play and you have a chance to have a pretty good offense.
David Campbell (37:55.495)
Fanon, when I was watching some of what he did this year, he did remind me of Dave Njoku a little bit in terms of the hurdling over defenders. Fanon has some wiggle to his game. he’s juking guys and he looks like he’s a little bit running back when he’s out there. He’s got some moves and the quick feet. I think Brown’s fans are going to like this guy and he’s productive.
Terry Pluto (38:05.11)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (38:13.462)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (38:20.874)
Yeah, third round.
David Campbell (38:20.955)
And yeah, and he was the best player on Bowling Green’s team and the other team knew it every week. And to be able to produce like he did with those numbers that you mentioned, Terry, when they know the ball is coming to you, that just speaks to his ability to get open and get separation and make plays.
Terry Pluto (38:27.832)
Sure.
Terry Pluto (38:38.04)
How about this, the Browns drafted two guys who were zero star recruits coming out of high school. Zero. Fannin was one. He was a safety at McKinley, Kenton McKinley, and Schlesinger was the other. made UCLA as a walk on. He’s a bio engineering major. I’m not quite sure what it is, but sounds hard. And so he, you know, you have that and that’s, that’s kind of cool too, because
David Campbell (38:58.301)
you
Terry Pluto (39:07.182)
You know, we’ll talk a little later on about the dangers of entitlement, but you know, these guys don’t seem to have it. And, you know, even though Junkins, you know, was a pretty big recruit and that, to me, he is an AFC tough, tough minded back. And I’m, I mean, overall, I mean, they did some nice things in the draft, but what was missing from the draft in your mind?
David Campbell (39:34.746)
Wide receivers. That was the big thing. What was missing for you?
Terry Pluto (39:36.642)
That’s true. How about this?
Terry Pluto (39:41.537)
No offensive linemen.
Terry Pluto (39:45.868)
Yeah, these pics.
I wonder if there was a discussion in the fourth round whether you take Samson or you take a tackle or something that they like there.
David Campbell (39:57.233)
Yeah, so you’ve written a lot Terry about the Browns paying the Deshaun Watson tariff, right? And this Browns draft to me felt like they knew they were still under the tariff, even though they had a first round pick.
Terry Pluto (40:03.288)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (40:11.118)
By the way, that predates the current president, whatever. This is not a political thing. started, just want to make this clear. I started writing this in 2022. I had to forget who, I mean, you I could have been like during the Warren Harding administration. It felt like it was so long ago. But, cause as somebody who does have a history, social studies, you know, political science major and a English minor, I knew what terrorists, what the Smoot-Hartley Act in 1930.
David Campbell (40:14.897)
Yeah, no, it’s not a Yeah. yeah, you’ve been, yeah, you’ve been writing about it for years.
David Campbell (40:27.153)
You
Terry Pluto (40:38.74)
or 1929 or 30, whatever that was brought those in. So I just wanted to establish this in my, in my, don’t do politics stance, but you’re correct. So I bring this up by the way, at the press conference to Andrew Barry and he says,
David Campbell (40:44.672)
yeah.
David Campbell (40:48.805)
Yes, yes.
David Campbell (40:56.701)
What did he say?
Terry Pluto (40:57.858)
They had nothing to do with that. That’s not it. It’s just a great trade. know, it was, it was just too basic. was too hard to resist. And maybe that part is true, but see, this is always what happens when you have Watson hanging over you. You’re always looking at what you’re bringing in 14 quarterbacks. You’re trying to add draft picks because he messed everything up around back in 2022.
David Campbell (41:24.155)
Yes, and the state of this team becoming off of three and fourteen season like if if the Browns were Ten and seven or something like that. I don’t think they trade the number two pick I think I think they keep it they take Travis Hunter and they’re like listen We’re going to try and boost this thing the next level but like because they need to they need to Reacquire that draft capital they had and make up for the lost picks and so they make this trade to get the Jaguars first rounder next year because they need it like the
Terry Pluto (41:33.344)
Yeah. No they don’t.
Terry Pluto (41:39.544)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (41:52.482)
Well, somebody from the Brown said to me, there said, well, how long do you plan to mention the Watson stuff? And it’s a half a joke. It’s a running joke between him and I for a couple. said, look, you had three years of no number ones. You finally got one back. said, that means you had three years of possibly impact players, not on rookie contracts. You finally got this here. So now you’re picking up others.
So I said, you’re three years behind. goes, well, I said, think 2029. But it’s almost like that if you really look at 26, 27, 28, you know.
David Campbell (42:27.965)
What do they say, Terry? When you draft a guy, have to give him five years to see if it works out.
Terry Pluto (42:36.142)
Yeah, but but I mean you’re making you’re making up for the picks you lost so you lost three years of picks This is the first year. You’ve got one. So next year you get two That’s 27 and next year are 26 and next year’s 27 and I threw a bonus year in Yeah
David Campbell (42:52.509)
Well, that’s what I’m saying. Like the 22, 23 and 24 first round picks for the Browns didn’t exist. So like five years from that, at least.
Terry Pluto (42:59.818)
Yeah, exactly because of that and also what you would have these good players on rookie contracts that either they would help your salary cap or you could possibly trade them.
David Campbell (43:10.077)
All right, so anyway, my point is like they had to set this, this is not a one year plan here anymore. It’s a two year plan. These guys, Stefanski and Andrew Barry have contracts and they’re gonna try and fulfill them. And so they’re trying to put this thing back on track for the next two or three years. So anyway, that’s my one point. I was very taken aback, Terry, by the negative reaction by Brown’s fans by the Dylan Gabriel selection at number 94. And...
Terry Pluto (43:11.256)
Okay.
Terry Pluto (43:14.858)
No, no.
Terry Pluto (43:32.589)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (43:35.973)
One of my first thoughts was what if Dylan Gabriel had walked onto the stage and thrown a bunch of fake dollar bills up in the air, done the money symbol, strutted out there with a big smile. What if he basically did the Johnny Manziel thing, right? And if he was taken 20th, Brown’s fans had no problem with the team drafting a 5′11 quarterback who had like this swagger and this kind of personality and everybody loved the money Manziel stuff.
Dylan Gabriel is built the same way, had the same kind of career in college, maybe even a little bit better. Yeah, maybe even better, longer, and doesn’t do any of that stuff, but Brown’s fans didn’t like the pick. I just, didn’t understand it. Given the success that Dylan Gabriel, mean, Johnny Manzella, he beat Alabama. Well, Dylan Gabriel beat Ohio State. Like, I didn’t see much difference, and I was very surprised in the difference in reaction and kind of how people were down on Dylan Gabriel.
Terry Pluto (44:09.398)
No, he had a better career because it’s longer. Yeah. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (44:26.254)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (44:30.764)
Because they want a savior. That’s what made Manzella. You go back to that time, he’s going to save us. That’s really what it was. They want a savior. the latest, you’re being rational. I’m being, my friend Bishop Joey Johnson from the House of the Lord and Akron says, when your heart’s broke, your head don’t work right.
I my son this I’m certain as to keep that in mind when your heart’s broke your head don’t work right stop me when I’m lying and Brown’s fans are broken hearted when it comes to quarterbacks Because the last one they really could give their heart to and hat and feel it’s in good hands was Bernie Kozar and Even that was a heartbreaking thing when he was let go so you have to go back 35 years
David Campbell (45:26.851)
And Joe Flacco was the last one and that didn’t last long at all. And Baker Mayfield was last one before that and that didn’t last as long as it could have. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (45:29.238)
Yeah, right. And Baker, yeah, Baker, the bag, yeah, could have, where a guy had a nice little run of several years. So, yeah.
David Campbell (45:36.485)
Right. No, that’s to your point, Terry. Like the ones they did kind of put a little trust in, it didn’t last very long. Yeah. So yeah, what’s the old from the Ted Lasso show, right? It’s the hope that kills you, I guess is what you’re saying. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (45:43.637)
Right, for whatever reason.
Terry Pluto (45:49.088)
Yeah. Yeah, it is. So anyway, where do you go there? I mean, Dylan Gabriel, I don’t care. Remember it was Tyler Schwall taken before him or after him. You know, to me, they were all kind of in that same close your eyes, pick a name. And then of course, by the way, if you listen to the Browns, that means they had Dylan Gabriel raided ahead of Shader Sanders.
David Campbell (46:11.815)
Yes. All right, so here’s my theory and I want to run a pass you about the Gabriel Sanders thing. All right, this was not a great quarterback draft and the Browns really liked Dylan Gabriel from where they got him. And when they got down to 144 and Sanders was still there, they had him graded to the point where it’s like, all right, we have to do this now.
Terry Pluto (46:33.382)
Why did they have him great? want to know this because because this will be another eternal question like who really now we know Jimmy Haslam is the one that told Andrew Barry to pick that phone up again and give Watson everything you wanted from the no trade cost to all the money that’s up that’s an ownership thing and we’ll take the heat but the guy that really pushed hard in the beginning for Watson is the thing we’ll probably never really know because
They’ll bury it. Just like, we’ll never really know if they had Dylan Gabriel right at the head of Shredder Sanders. Why? What was it based on? And then as you said, then what happened then after that? So go ahead.
David Campbell (47:20.155)
Okay. So my point is everything is geared toward finding the next long-term quarterback here. They have invested a 94th pick and a 144th pick and two guys who might, might work out and might not. They will know more a year from now. And so will all the fans and us about these two guys. If, if they don’t feel good about the guys they have, the draft capital investment was not all that great. And they have two first rounders next year. Plus they could offer their first rounder from 20.
Terry Pluto (47:29.12)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (47:49.757)
27 if they wanted to go after somebody in the top three of the draft, right?
Terry Pluto (47:52.718)
Why’d you trade four or five first rounders? It worked out so well the last time. No, I’m with you, yeah.
David Campbell (47:57.357)
I’m just saying now, now they, yeah. So if they want to go after an Arch Manning or, Drew Aller, who I’m a big fan of next year, like they are in position to do that now. Plus they have two young quarterbacks with some potential that they can get into the system, see what they think and, and let these guys, play some football. So that’s the plan, right?
Terry Pluto (48:04.739)
Let
Terry Pluto (48:18.124)
Yeah, you have, yeah, you have that. That’s from their point. Yeah. Now you get a bunch of challenges coming in. Let’s we’ll go. We’ll look ahead first and then we’ll look back. looking ahead, sure. This Andrews is going to walk into that quarterback room. In some ways he’s going to be guilty until proven innocent. By that, I mean, he’s going to be walking in there where these guys are going to look at him. You know, Joe Flacco, you know, Kenny Pickett.
David Campbell (48:22.47)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (48:49.602)
Dylan Gabriel, know, paid, we paid our dues in different ways to be here. And you and everybody’s paid all attention to you and your fifth round pick. And the word is you don’t like to prepare.
You’re going to have to prove it. And they’re not, I mean, they’re not going to like it. that’s why the Browns will have to figure out how to handle the PR in this thing, because the media is going to want to talk to Chedure. They’re not going to, you know, even know where, if you weren’t there, you know, Flacco picket, et cetera there. And these guys, it’s going to be a fascinating thing. There is a dynamic that goes on. and.
I mean, they want Flacco to mentor, know, Flacco, although I understand where Flacco, it makes it sounds like he doesn’t want to mentor, but I know where he’s coming from. Because in some ways I’m the old guy on our staff here. And when it comes to writing or whatever, I kind of have casual conversations with some of younger writers. And a lot of times I find reasons to encourage them. Then I’m looking to see, they want to talk about it or not? And the ones that do, we will.
But I’m not going to come up to somebody and say, man, you know that, that lead just stunk. You know, I’m not going to do that. Now, somebody that I’ve got built a relationship with, you know, organically is the word that, you know, they love to use now. Fine. But otherwise, you know, I got my own stuff to do. And so this is, this is going to be, I think, and I would love to hang around in some of those early meetings. I really would. That would be great. Tommy Reese in the room and possibly,
You know, Kevin, just the personalities and where they came from. I’m Joe, Joe Flacco’s on a Superbowl. Joe Flacco’s won a Superbowl MVP. He’s also won come back part of the year just in two years ago. Kenny Pickett is fighting for his NFL life. This is a chance to redefine his whole career. Dylan Gabriel is a guy who’s been told he’s too small. Ever since he was small and he’s still small.
Terry Pluto (51:04.11)
He’s gonna they think he’s nobody I’ve even heard Nathan Gazur or somebody on the brown thing say, know, there’s got a chance to be another case Keenum Nobody wants to hear you got a chance to be another case Keenum. No disrespect to being case Keenum You know Dylan Gabriel who Smith started 65 games at college and all this is got as high his you know Aspirations higher than case Keenum and then you have Chideur and you know the coming out of the prime time
marketing brand. And so there I’m going to ask you what do think of them as a quarter
David Campbell (51:39.089)
don’t think he has a great arm. I don’t think he throws a great long ball. I think his stats were probably better than they should have been because he was throwing to arguably the best receiver in the country. He was playing both ways. I think that Travis Hunter’s caught a lot of balls that maybe weren’t ideally thrown. But that said, I think he’s got the size and he’s got the pocket presence. I don’t think he played against a lot of great competition in college. I was watching a lot of the
the chalkboard behind the scenes stuff they showed during there’s a lot of clips flying around from the behind the scenes NFL stuff that they do. you know, inside the AFC North or whatever it’s called. And we don’t know like how these guys performed on the whiteboard when the coach is like, all right, tell me what your favorite play is and what if this defense changed to from, you know, cover four to cover two, what would you do? And it’s like, we don’t know a lot of that about what’s going on behind the scenes either. And the coaches and GMs do so.
Getting back to the original question, I think he could be fine. I think he could probably start in this league. I don’t know if it’s going to be here, but that’s the thing, Terry. If it doesn’t work out, just let him go. There’s a lot of fifth round picks who get let go, and one of them, the Browns, just traded for Kenny Pickett, right? So it’s not like the franchise is hanging on either of these guys.
Terry Pluto (52:49.77)
Mm-hmm
Terry Pluto (52:57.037)
Thank you.
No, and that’s a good point. mean, this is not like, you know, all the draft capital for, cause I got, Watson and this, mean, I have to admit, I wrote my column about him. I’m weary of quarterback drama. And that’s why I said, basically, I don’t think he’s that good. I think he’ll be okay, maybe. And I just didn’t want to go through it, but I do, you know, it’s not like a number one pick for, for, uh, Mazel or this. Now a couple of things on, uh, when you look at, uh, should do her.
Number one is 28 % of his completions were screen passes. That really helped his completion percentage. Number two, never took a snap under center. Number three, he only had three plays with two tight ends on the field. 75 % of the time or something, they had four receivers. Now, and number four was he...
Basically, I think almost never had a play out of the huddle either. So these are things are going to have to learn when it comes to the situation. Now, does he want to and will he? I think the big mistake was that he let, this is a guy who played for his father through high school. His father was the offensive coordinator when he was in high school and then played for his father with two college teams.
Perhaps there is somebody like that that was in the draft once upon a time, but I don’t remember that.
David Campbell (54:35.109)
I can’t think of it, especially not a quarterback.
Terry Pluto (54:37.632)
Yeah, and it’s kind of weird, you know, that that and then the father Dion becomes the agent basically and completely misreads the room totally expecting his son because it’s prime time in this. All right, how much money was the NIL deal that Shador Sanders had for this season?
David Campbell (55:04.145)
I don’t know the answer to that. Five million? Five million?
Terry Pluto (55:05.77)
I do. Keep going. It was six and a half. All right. By the way, along those lines, some of this stuff’s gonna be my newsletter. Quentin Ewers, Ohio State, Texas. He had another year of eligibility left. He could’ve...
David Campbell (55:09.373)
8 million? okay.
Terry Pluto (55:30.936)
Probably transferred because Texas has what’s his name Arch Manning, you know, so but he that he had a two million dollar NIL deal with Texas They said he could have probably added another million to transfer somewhere else. Well, he goes into the draft He goes into seventh round. I forgot who took him. I think Miami or somebody did You know, he’s so basically the entire package for example that
David Campbell (55:52.573)
think so.
Terry Pluto (55:58.144)
Shadoor will sign with the Browns will be about 4 million with about 350 guaranteed is less than what he just got paid and the entire package that We yours will at a seventh round pick. I’ll get about 150 guaranteed and a long-term deal is like Cap fair for him. I mean what he was making before I mean it is like, you know act like so it’s isn’t this interesting what’s happening now
these quarterbacks come out, they’re coming from this exalted position. And I mean, the quarterbacks always had their butt kissed and everything else on the campus. And the boosters were taken care of them, but no, not like this taken care of.
David Campbell (56:40.049)
Well, and we saw this really early, Terry, when I was on Drew Aller, right after the season ended or their season ended at Penn State. And he announced very quickly that he was going back to Penn State for exactly the reason you’re talking about. I think they bumped his NIL deal up to two, five, eight, whatever, eight million, whatever it was. And he’s like, you know what? I love it here. We got a chance to win it all next season. I’m going back for one more year. And yeah.
Terry Pluto (56:56.44)
Sure.
Terry Pluto (57:03.47)
Yeah, take the, take the money because by the way, this will be good in some ways for the NFL because I think the more stars these guys get in college, the better I really do. mean, that’s one of the reasons, um, they went and took a Dylan Gabriel because he had the 65 starts in that. Now, what I also think hurt, um, by the way, this is interesting. You know, there was another Sanders in the draft.
David Campbell (57:32.765)
Shiloh, right?
Terry Pluto (57:33.89)
Yeah, didn’t get picked. Shiloh has hired Drew Rosenhouse now to be his agent and Drew cut a deal to get Shiloh to go to the Dolphins, I believe it was, or no, excuse me, Tampa Bay as a, he’s a safety, as kind of a camp guy and you know, got him a few bucks. If they had a real agent, I think Sanders would not have had so many of these stories come out that like you went to New York and he,
They sent him an offense for an install and he just wasn’t prepared for it. And we’re just kind of shocked that they were asking him all these questions and things. Flip side story. John Dorsey told me they liked Pat Patrick Mahomes, athleticism. They checked out his character, good family, the whole thing, but they wanted to know because they play such a wild style. Was it Texas Tech? Correct.
David Campbell (58:30.983)
Yep. Yep.
Terry Pluto (58:32.75)
What will he be like with Andy Reed? You know, the offensive genius, they brought him in, they sent him some stuff. They put them on the whiteboard and Dorsey told me 10 minutes into it. He’s looking at Reed and I think it was at Chris Bauer. And I think there are other guy that was there other player and they’re just, they’re like smiling. They’re almost live and go, this kid’s got it. He did the whole thing. He knows he goes, we’re going, we got to get them. See that had he failed that.
They probably don’t trade up for him. And if he wasn’t wired in that direction, he wouldn’t be Patrick Mahomes. As great an athlete as he is. I mean, he’s five times the athlete of Chedur Sanders or 99 % of the quarterbacks in the NFL, but he’s smart and he’s got good character and he was a worker. And so this is what’s going to be with Chedur. He’s got a chance to listen and change. Or as you said, goodbye.
David Campbell (59:33.425)
Yeah. And Terry, the thing you’re talking about with my homes, I think that’s what the Browns are angling for next year in the top 10 is like, all right, if there’s a guy like that, that we just fall for and think that he’s the one like we got to have the tools to do it. And so they’re in position where they can do it.
Terry Pluto (59:39.118)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (59:48.206)
But it’s fascinating, but I thought of that story when I heard about the Shadoor stuff and I remember Dorsey, I forgot how we got on the subject. I think I just asked him one day about trading up for him and we were just kind of like two guys talking, you know, one day after practice. He goes, let me tell you this story. And he said, I’m not saying it’s just me. I mean, we’re interested in him. goes, but we’re in this room and all three of us are going, look at this.
I mean, you know, it was like Tom Brady or somebody you brought in, go, he’s the package. You know, someone was like, don’t let him out the door. Cause Andy Reeves already got, you know, five plays in his head before the kid even leaves the room. And what I could do with this guy, cause he had Alex Smith at the time who was a little bit mobile, but now this is a whole other level of what I could do offensively.
David Campbell (01:00:37.693)
Yeah, and then they moved heaven and earth to move up in the draft and get him. All right. We got a few emails here, Terry, about the Browns. But who do you think will have a better career? Dylan Gabriel or Shidware Sanders?
Terry Pluto (01:00:39.85)
Yep.
Terry Pluto (01:00:51.182)
I don’t know. I’m gonna make you answer your question, you answer it first.
David Campbell (01:00:53.789)
I think Gabriel’s gonna have a better career. think he’s I think he’s Yeah, I think he’s had more exposure to more different stuff just like you were discussing and I think he’s gonna He’s gonna acclimate to the NFL a lot faster. They might both have really good careers I just think Gabriel’s on a little bit of a faster track because of his experience
Terry Pluto (01:01:03.948)
Yes, yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:01:12.482)
Interesting. I heard Mel Kuyper interview today on the air and he said, I have to check this. He said that in Chedur’s career in college, he’s had four different offensive coordinators. Well, he had two the first year at Colorado, I know, because he had the former Kent State coach, Sean Lewis, and then Pat Shermer. But I thought Shermer was doing it this year for them. But I don’t know at Jackson State who did it or what.
David Campbell (01:01:31.569)
Lewis yep the former Browns
He was, yep.
David Campbell (01:01:41.447)
Well, he might have had two different, he was there for two years, so he might have won one different year. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:01:44.256)
Yes, I could add two of them there too. Of course, that’s the NFL though. You get different offensive coordinators all the time. That’s part of the deal.
One of the things that hurts Chidur, and I heard Greg Cosell say this, and he is the NFL quarterback guru, NFL Finns quarterback guru, well respected. He says Chidur, when he feels pressure, has a tendency to drop back and back and back. And next thing you know, you’re 20 yards behind the line of stormage. And that’s a tough way to go.
David Campbell (01:02:25.351)
Well, that pretty much describes a lot of his life at Colorado because of the offensive line problems, especially the first year at Colorado. It was brutal. So I, I’m really interested to see how this all shakes out. think just let them get in, treat them like rookies, right? Like you were talking about and, and see what happens. So they got to earn it.
Terry Pluto (01:02:30.122)
Yeah, it was terrible.
Terry Pluto (01:02:41.744)
Yeah, and they have to, and and they’re going to, that’ll be a real struggle for the brows because the media is going to want this guy. And you know, the, the, the, the prime time family has this brand. They like to sell it.
David Campbell (01:02:56.081)
They do, but I think we’ve been talking about the Browns aren’t going to put up with it. I just I don’t think they will.
Terry Pluto (01:03:01.718)
I hope not. mean, I will say Barry went made a lot of comments in that direction. I was again, I wish they’d added an offensive lineman. You mentioned a receiver. What did you think of Was it Deontay Johnson they brought in?
David Campbell (01:03:15.429)
Yeah, I don’t know, I-
It seems like the Browns have kind of tried to just patch together. They’ve got a great receiver if they’re number one, and then they’re trying to patch together the rest of it. Every year it seems like that. And I just don’t know. It’s hard for fans to get excited about anybody that they’re bringing in at this point.
Terry Pluto (01:03:26.403)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:03:29.794)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (01:03:35.542)
In general, a receiver that is tossed away by the steelers usually is done. That’s kind of the way that goes.
David Campbell (01:03:41.659)
Yeah, so I know it’s he’s the guy and we’ll see where it goes. So let me I want to these emails real quick and we’ll we’ll move on then to the guardians maybe. Alright, this one is from Bill Border and bills from Moorhead, Kentucky and he says, Hey, Terry, long time listener, reader and Cleveland sports fan. I’m trying to give this draft a chance. The trade, the additional draft picks then to go and waste a third round draft pick on a shrimp QB. This is a Cody Kessler Redux.
Terry Pluto (01:03:48.066)
Yes.
David Campbell (01:04:08.389)
It just seems that they never learn. I truly think it’s deep Podesta pulling the strings.
Terry Pluto (01:04:08.654)
we’re in a bar. Kevin, have Kevin Hogan if we’re going to go there.
David Campbell (01:04:15.549)
It just seems like this franchise cannot get out of its own way for trying and if they want a new cash box stadium pay for it yourselves. All right, that’s Bill Borda and more.
Terry Pluto (01:04:19.533)
Well, I-
Terry Pluto (01:04:24.514)
Well, I’ll tell you, I hear a lot of that.
David Campbell (01:04:29.713)
The next one’s from Ron B and Ron says, hello, in my honest opinion, the Browns should have traded Miles Garrett for additional cap space and draft picks and gone all in on a total rebuild targeting next season’s crop of college QBs. Even getting one or two players in this draft, they will still be a mediocre team, six to eight wins at best. You might be right, Ron. Six or eight wins might be what they are, but that might be enough to keep them going.
Terry Pluto (01:04:52.76)
Well, mean, all right, if they go eight and nine and they end up, you find Kenny Pickett is good. You find should, you know, no worries. You end up with a quarterback playing by the end of the year that you think is pretty good. I’m not saying great, just pretty good, which then will allow you still, if you want to draft your quarterback, but at least you feel like you’ve got something there. think in the reason they brought in Joe Flacco was
Uh, they want, they want picket to play. I’m just, don’t care what they say or whatever. They want picket pickets there. Uh, we think this is our reclamation project. He’s going to get a first shot at it, but they also don’t want another three and 14 disaster. And if it goes there, they can put Joe in there and they know Joe will run that offense and, and they will at least look like an NFL team. I mean, cause the truth is when you watch them last year, the offense.
did not even look like an NFL offense most of the time, whether it’s, the Sean couldn’t do anything. And I love Jamis cause he was just sort of entertaining, but this it’s like, he couldn’t help himself. You know, he it’s like, he, he, he couldn’t declare victory. just, it’s almost like a guy that I don’t gamble or whatever, but it’s like, he just keeps, he has a winning hand, you know, in his hand and he wants three more cards. He just, he wants to make sure he has enough cars still.
until he goes bust. And that’s how it was. I’ve got this guy open 12 yards away, but I’m trying one. I know it’s double coverage down there, but I could just fire one in there. 55 yards and see if Jerry Judy could catch it.
David Campbell (01:06:27.581)
Alright, here’s our next email from Dan Huff and Dan is from Lawrenceville, New Jersey. He says, was the morning after the much-ballyhooed first round of the draft and I was trying to absorb the Browns trade in subsequent selection of Graham, who I’m sure is a fine player and young man. To that end, I turned to Terry’s article to see what his thoughts were about what transpired, hoping it would help process what the Browns did. Well, let’s just say it failed to talk me off the ledge.
Terry Pluto (01:06:45.447)
Terry Pluto (01:06:49.55)
You
David Campbell (01:06:50.585)
As context, I was 11 when the Browns beat the Colts for the title in 64. I’ve been a loyal and devoted fan through so much pain and disappointment, but this, by comparison, not the worst of it, but for some reason it feels like the last straw. Sure, one player can only make so much of an impact and Graham may be a good player, but the aimless arrogance, the deafness to the fans, desperate cry for something to be excited about, the persistent and mistaken belief that they’re somehow smarter than everyone else when his history clearly shows otherwise has become too much.
Terry Pluto (01:06:55.182)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (01:07:18.407)
For my remaining years, I will be better off turning my back because I don’t have the time to hold out desperately for a brighter future that this franchise is capable of realizing. Trust me, this makes me sad and it would seem that Terry agrees. that’s Dan. Dan is down on the Browns, Terry.
Terry Pluto (01:07:33.358)
I understand that and I just have a hard time passing up on greatness. Um, and that’s, mean, yeah, that’s, that’s what I did. And I, you know, you can go there and what I saw on Travis Hunter too, is he remember how Mike Evans is that what was a receiver that was a, uh, Johnny Menzel’s receiver, how he made Johnny so good and you leaping over people on that. Well, that’s a lot what Travis Hunter did for Chedure. I’m not saying that’s the only reason.
David Campbell (01:07:39.015)
That’s what you saw in Travis Hunter.
David Campbell (01:07:50.811)
Yeah, Texas A yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:08:02.136)
But having a guy like that, having greatness to throw to. And I guess I was just so excited about her because I’m thinking you get him in there and you get him in a receive where he’s really concentrating on being a receiver. Yeah, you could help out in the secondary. Because the NFL people I was reading said that, you know, he was kind of freelancing his routes even. mean, it’s not something he concentrated on. And you could just.
ooze talent, 96 catches, three drops, and I’ve never covered a draft in my life where they said the best offensive player and the best defensive player in a draft was the same player.
David Campbell (01:08:44.477)
Yeah, you never see that. yeah, probably not. So I’ve seen this on the internet a little bit, Terry, and I just wanted to share it real quick before we move on. But what if this was the Browns draft? All right. How do you think fans would have reacted? Five Mason Graham, 33 Shadoor Sanders, 36 Sweshenger, 67 Judkins, 94 Fanon, 126 Dylan Sampson, and 144 Dylan Gabriel. And the Jags 2026 first round pick.
Terry Pluto (01:08:46.446)
probably never see it again either.
David Campbell (01:09:15.389)
If the Browns had taken Shadour Sanders at 33 overall and the fans would have been like, oh, they got their quarterback and they didn’t even go back into the first round to do it. This is awesome. I think that would have been the reaction and they would have gotten the same guys at the same spots. Just in a different order. What do you think of that?
Terry Pluto (01:09:21.826)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (01:09:30.018)
Yeah, I think probably probably there certainly would have felt better about it. But I also think when the fans were watching Sanders drop, they’re going, what don’t we know that they know these guys are paid to know stuff? Yes, they like they always say, well, Tom Brady won the sixth round. Nobody ever said Tom Brady was going in the second round. You know, the question was, he be drafted at all? I mean, that was really
You you look at this other guy, well, Brock Purdy went in the seventh round. Well, nobody ever said he was going to go anywhere. You know, he was like his agent was already working the phone so he could get one of those undrafted free agent contracts. You know, that’s, that was the, this is, this is why this was just so unprecedented. then it’s like, you know, are they going to, somehow mess this up? I guess that’s, that’s what I’m, I’m thinking. Yeah, maybe, maybe that, of course, if they’d had Travis Hunter.
then I think people would be even more excited.
David Campbell (01:10:33.713)
All right.
Terry Pluto (01:10:34.382)
All right, all right, all right, I’m going the other way. You keep Travis. You got the 33rd pick. You take Junkins. Then you go down and you kind of pick up. Well, you don’t have 36, right? So then you go into the other rounds and you you start picking, you still take Fanon. And then, you know, you take Sampson. want another, Gabriel would have been there. Yeah. The only thing you would be missing would be Schlesinger.
David Campbell (01:10:52.925)
Samson would have been there. Gabriel would have been there.
Terry Pluto (01:11:02.518)
and you will be missing the first round pick next year. Now the first round pick is a big thing to be missing.
David Campbell (01:11:10.333)
My head’s we got a lot of time to talk about this draft class as we go along here. The Browns will be having rookie mini camp very soon. I think it’s this weekend, if I’m not mistaken. So we’ll be getting into all that. I think we’re good with the Browns. All right, you want to get into the Guardians here, Terry? It’s been a weird week, and I feel like...
Terry Pluto (01:11:12.269)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (01:11:29.656)
Yeah.
David Campbell (01:11:35.953)
team is starting to slide back to maybe where we were discussing them a year ago with the pitching struggles. The starting staff is putting a lot of pressure on the bullpen, which isn’t all that healthy now. And it’s rough. It’s rough.
Terry Pluto (01:11:40.758)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:11:46.124)
Yeah, but they just called off Vince Valacuez who had a 5.6 ERA in AAA and did not pitch last year because he had elbow injury and here he is.
David Campbell (01:11:58.375)
Does this year feel the same to you in terms of struggles or different or better or worse or what do feel about where they’re at?
Terry Pluto (01:12:05.556)
Well, I mean, I was feeling better about Logan Allen and Gavin Williams to the last start. So the Logan Allen, didn’t help him the other day, but I forgot how many years they made behind him, but he wasn’t great. But look, you got to help. Well, can you got to catch the ball behind him?
I’m neutral. I’m not all that bummed out. I want to see how the class A thing goes. I just think that’s so important. was interesting they pitched him in the eighth inning. I’m okay with that. He needs to get some success. And they want to have him move in. And maybe his arm was tired. I’m very certain. These guys...
Generally when a guy has been successful for a long time and suddenly he’s not, especially a pitcher, he’s hurt.
Terry Pluto (01:13:05.43)
And it could be minor hurt or major hurt, but he’s hurt. And especially to me, Klaus is one of my, he’s a warrior. he, you, you watch him, he never complains about, you know, when there’s a bad call, he’ll kind of turn around. You can just see him like gritting his teeth and trying to take in a deep breath and he gets back up on the mound. The guy messes up behind him. You know, he doesn’t glare at him. now granted, you know, he, doesn’t do a lot of interviews, but
When he has, you know, he, it’s always interesting though, when the, when the interpreters go doing this interview, yo, I always wish I’d really knew the Spanish because I’m not saying there, but they probably soften maybe things at times, but I just think he’s a, he’s a, he’s a real pro and that stuff that was happening to him, that’s probably, he probably had a tired arm. Uh, and I’m really pulling for him. just want, he wants to play here. You know, he signed that contract real quick.
And I just remember being in spring training. This is the day after he signed that extension and his family must’ve knew this was coming. There was like 12 of them around him afterwards and they were just having a little party and you suddenly realize, I wonder how many of these people that Emmanuel’s carrying, you know, and, and it just was, it just made me like him. And he was so gracious. I was watching them with them. have no idea what they’re saying. was all in Spanish, Spanish, but it’s like,
It just made me feel good. You know, I remember when Carlos Santana signed his first extension with the tribe and he had a guy, his last name was Moda, I forgot his first name, who was like his agent. And we were talking afterwards and I said, well, I don’t blame you guys for signing the contract, but I know that you’re going to get ripped because of that. He said, those people that do that, they have no idea.
What these guys off the, off the island, easy call them, how many people they’re taking care of from back home, the good they’re doing back home. Carlos is a great kid. And that’s all the things that you said, what can we do for my family in here? Of course, Carl says that was like 15 years ago or whatever it was. Um, and it was the same thing. You know, you see these guys and their hearts in the right place. And, I, I want them to pitch well and pitch for a long time, not only for, um, you know, Cleveland, but just because.
Terry Pluto (01:15:28.448)
I just saw a glimpse of the human person there.
David Campbell (01:15:33.511)
So it’s not the only thing with Class A. We’re also seeing that Tristan, we’ve been talking about Tristan McKenzie. just to bring people up to speed real quick, if they haven’t been watching this, he was put on waivers. He was not picked up. So the Guardians are sending him to Columbus. He’s accepted assignment there. And he gets to keep his salary after doing that, which is good for him. But again, 11.12, I think was his ERA with four strikeouts, seven walks.
Terry Pluto (01:15:37.454)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:16:00.546)
Well, was awful. Yeah, it was awful. It was awful, yeah.
David Campbell (01:16:01.757)
five and two thirds innings out of the bullpen. So they’re hoping that he can go down there and kind of find his form and get back to some semblance of what he was.
Terry Pluto (01:16:09.314)
Yeah, pitch them. I mean, I, I think they’re going to start them, but I really would like to see them follow the bullpen formula with him. You know, the, John Hart formula of pitch and a half, you know, one good pitch, the other pitch and just hit the glove, put the glove there. Yeah. Put the glove there. Hit the glove.
David Campbell (01:16:28.017)
Simplify. Yeah.
Alright, well the Guardians even with having Austin Hedges and think Will Wilson pitching back to back.
Terry Pluto (01:18:19.63)
Will Wilson, remember he made his debut on this podcast two weeks ago. I threatened all of Cleveland with Will Wilson being called up.
David Campbell (01:18:24.893)
That’s right, yeah, now he’s fishing.
David Campbell (01:18:29.405)
But even with all the troubles there, there’s still only two and half games out of first. They’re 15 and 13 We do have we got an email here from Neil in Jamestown, New York Terry frequent writer to us on this podcast He says hey Terry even if will Brennan can’t hit lefties at all Playing him every day and right would be better than the unproductive mess. They have going on right now. What do you think? I was looking up will Brennan stats. It looks like he’s hitting about 286 with a 718 OPS right now
I don’t know any thoughts on Will Brennan
Terry Pluto (01:19:03.01)
Well, I know what they’re thinking, which is that Nolan Jones has a bigger upside than Will Brennan. And the problem is if Will Brennan were a right-handed hitter, I think they probably would call him up because Big Christmas is still swinging at pitches that aren’t even in the same zip code sometimes.
But they have Will Wilson and who I was talking in a background talk with Chris Antinetti like last week. And it’s like, you know, we really kind of like him. I mean, we drafted him. We scattered. It’s like, this is their guy because they’re, know, this is rummage sales style scouting. And I get it. You know, if you do yard sales or whatever, you kind of look at that thing, you know, is that thing really old or is it an antique?
You know, you kind of have to figure out, he’d knock the rust off it and see what you got. So I get where they’re coming from, but I, you know, Brennan, I actually thought Brennan was going to be better than he has been. I was very high in him coming up through the minors. So, I mean, he’s adequate. Yeah. In the minors?
David Campbell (01:20:11.037)
This season Terry, I just pulled his numbers. Yeah, he’s batting 158 against lefties and 314 against righties. And his OPS against lefties is 316 and his OPS against righties is 805. So.
Terry Pluto (01:20:18.798)
god.
Terry Pluto (01:20:22.818)
geez. He’s like hopeless. He’s hopeless against Lefty. You know, he shouldn’t be. It’s not like he’s got a huge swing or anything. I don’t get it.
David Campbell (01:20:34.941)
All right. Yeah, we’re cheering the Guardians fans up here with some positive things coming online.
Terry Pluto (01:20:35.01)
How’s that for a great detailed analysis? But you look at this, remember they have Will Wilson. But look, in the end, mean, Nolan Jones did in 2023, I mean, he played like a possible guy who had a chance to be a borderline star. I mean, he stole 20 bases, he hit 20 homers.
The thing that was interesting about that year, now he went down, they traded him to Colorado for, oh, do you see what my guy, my guy Brito broke his thumb. He’s out for two months. Yeah. Bum, bummed out, bummed me out. So they traded Brito, Nolan Jones for Brito. And then he goes and they send him to Colorado Springs and he came out, he was sitting like 350 or something crazy, but it’s like, okay, that’s the...
David Campbell (01:21:13.575)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:21:32.318)
the coast leak, everybody hits at Colorado Springs because the altitude is high and the balls don’t break. But then he gets called up to Colorado and granted, you know, you have the home thing, but I did the splits home and away. They were almost identical. He hit the same home and away. And then I’m like, that’s interesting. Then last year he had the back problems. So we will see.
David Campbell (01:22:01.735)
Alright, well the Guardians are finishing up their series with the Twins, which runs through Thursday and then they’re on the road. They’re playing three at Toronto this upcoming weekend and then they are at Washington before returning to play the Phillies at home on May 9th. So, alright, I think we got some emails here to wrap up with Terry. We’ve been asking people to send in memories of opening day and also listening to games. So we’ve kind of got some of those left. I think we did not have time to get the Foundry guys email last week, so I wanted to make sure we got Foundry guy in here.
Terry Pluto (01:22:17.901)
Okay.
David Campbell (01:22:31.011)
And Foundry Guy says, a kid, my family listened to the Browns every Sunday of the season on the radio. Then Black and White TV’s introduced us to my all time favorite Brown, number 44 Leroy Kelly. I lived near Cincinnati, but for several years had Brown season tickets until Belichick benched Bernie. Seems like only yesterday the guy sitting in front of us was always hollering, Michael Dean, Michael Dean. Every time Perry made a play behind the line. When Modell took his team to Baltimore, I became a diehard Ravens fan.
Terry Pluto (01:22:47.196)
There we go.
David Campbell (01:22:58.447)
Along with my wife and kids, we enjoyed the Inner Harbor and several Ravens games. When Cleveland got the new Browns, my wife and kids went back to the Browns. I stayed loyal to my Ravens, but now also root for any team Joe Flacco plays for. If Joe is the opposing QB, no doubt I will root for Flacco over my beloved Ravens. So this should be like the best year ever for my Browns loving family. Now let’s bring back Nick Chubb and have some fun watching him thrive again. When Flacco ran this offense in Baltimore, Justin Forsett came back from a teaching job and dominated.
Terry Pluto (01:22:58.488)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (01:23:28.057)
Alex Collins look like a pro bowler bring the fun back to Cleveland sign chub and give him his deserved chance. Let’s give Cleveland some more experiences like the Thursday night win over the Jets. That’s from Foundry guy. So thanks for that Foundry guy. Appreciate that.
Terry Pluto (01:23:42.158)
I really think the Browns don’t want to bring Shub back and cut him. I believe that and they thought he would just be maybe so-so at best and that’s why they went in the direction with the two young guys and Jerome Ford. I think they figured they got to be 23 guys. They’re gonna put together a really good running back room. That’s their view and that might be accurate.
David Campbell (01:24:06.523)
Yeah, if they do bring him back, you know, he could be a short down back and they’ll see how he looks. He’s certainly working out hard. I’ll tell you that.
Terry Pluto (01:24:10.754)
Yeah. Somebody told me to the problem there is a guy like that, you would want him to play special teams, but you can’t have Chuck play special teams. know, that’s the tough thing. Right. Like Samson could play special teams, for example, or if, if junkins is starting, you know, that kind of Ford’s play some special teams that by the way, I called in my column, I called, Barry out on this reset.
David Campbell (01:24:21.947)
Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. The third or fourth guy in the room.
Terry Pluto (01:24:38.882)
Well, drafted good about draft into quarterbacks. Well, we drafted two running backs too. Yeah, but a quarterback is not going to play special team. So please just don’t don’t go down that road.
David Campbell (01:24:47.751)
That’s true. That’s true. All right. Here’s our last one. It’s from Bill Knott. I hope I got your last name right, Bill. And Bill says, Terry, as one from Parma, what is your favorite Parma sports memory? You’ve talked about growing up in Parma, Terry, on Westminster Drive. Did you used to go to high school games back in the day? Or what do you remember about sports in Parma when you were a kid?
Terry Pluto (01:25:03.031)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (01:25:07.01)
Well, what we did my dad took me my dad took me to Benedictine games because of that He was playing wiffle ball in my backyard on Westminster Drive. Yeah, we just would play there there’s a little shrubs and You know, it’s probably a hundred feet away or whatever and then try and hit the wiffle ball over that My dad would throw to me try to hit it over the shrub and that little yard. The other thing is in the garage we had My brother my dad
David Campbell (01:25:14.738)
Really?
Terry Pluto (01:25:34.806)
rolling tennis balls when I was batting, you try to hit it, you know, out of there. We had our own little batting cage that way. So it was more of the family thing than going to Parma games or whatever, because we were a Benedictine family.
David Campbell (01:25:49.725)
So did you have like a short field to the once when you’re playing wiffle ball that was one of the fences shorter than the other one in terms of batting right here lefty.
Terry Pluto (01:25:58.688)
Well, it seems like if you pulled it, you hit it off the side of the garage. forgot what that was. I think you just kept running, you know, until somebody got you out. And then the little shrubs are like in center field. And then over to the right field was the neighbor’s garage. I mean, this is like, you know, if you’ve ever been to like place, Palmer or any these little developments, you know, from the old days post World War II, these houses are close together now. and.
David Campbell (01:26:01.851)
huh.
Hahaha
Terry Pluto (01:26:25.698)
There was always a fear that even with the waffle bra, you’re to break somebody’s window, which we never did, but we did hit the window. But you know, even going back, this is the guy who hit two, two. I think my actual career batting average is two 23. And I think I’ve jacked it up to two 32 now when I tell the story at better naked. Yeah. Which matched my slugging percentage. Cause I can’t say I ever had an extra base hit. but it just shows even back then I didn’t have enough OPS.
David Campbell (01:26:40.445)
Next year it’ll be 243, right?
Terry Pluto (01:26:52.898)
which nobody knew what it was, and he hopes enough they’d break a window with a wiffle ball.
David Campbell (01:26:57.213)
All right. Well, thanks for all the great emails today to all of our listeners and again if you want to hit us with any thoughts questions comments stories about Sports and years gone by or whatever hit us at sports at Cleveland comm and just put Terry’s talking in the subject line and we will try to get it on an upcoming podcast So alright, I think that’s gonna do it right Terry. You anything else? All right. Thanks everybody for listening. We’re gonna have a lot to talk about next week. We’ll have game one of the new Cav series we’ll have more guardians and
Terry Pluto (01:27:17.442)
That is it.
David Campbell (01:27:25.693)
think we’ll have some Browns football to talk about probably. we will talk to you then on Terry’s talking.